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Rethinking the Pushing Stage, with Whapio

The Birthful Podcast: Episode #195

(Renewed! Originally  #114)

It’s extremely common for pushing stages to be managed, with laboring people reclining on their backs and being told to grab behind their knees and pull them open towards their ears, while tucking their chins, and holding their breath for a count of 10. Is this really the best way? Does it support physiology? And what effect does it have on the baby, and on the perineum that’s receiving the brunt of that exertion? The fabulous Whapio is here to tell us more. Check it out.


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What we talked about:

  • The missing stage between 10 cms and pushing (and how physiology will set you free)
  • Managed pushing vs. instinctual physiological pushing
  • Interior crowning of the head on the cervix
  • Allowing time for the internal rotation of baby’s head
  • What this looks like from the outside: “The Quietude”
  • How pushing early creates (unhelpful) friction
  • The importance of taking that rest
  • Pushing from a place of inner alignment (IE. let your body guide you)
  • Following the British model with 2 stages for pushing (latent and active)
  • The importance of (baby’s) head extension before pushing
  • Looking at those who can’t push, and still “ooze” their babies out
  • Grinding = increase in fetal distress
  • How will you know if it’s time?
  • What immediate pushing can do to your pelvic floor
  • How are contractions like waves in the ocean?
  • What if you get checked and there’s a “cervical lip” that gets “pushed out of the way” and then you’re told to push?
  • What about this idea that you need to be on your back to get baby’s head “under the pubic bone”?
  • What if careproviders insist on managing your pushing stage?


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Courtesy of Whapio
About Whapio

Whapio has been an Independent Midwife for the past 30 years. In 2001, she founded The Matrona, where she hosts an online holistic midwifery program, holistic doula programs, and postpartum doula programs to designed to educate birth caregivers, and provide a balance of the academic and intuitive aspects of birth. The Matrona advocates the Return of Birth to the Family and espouses soul-level connections between caregiver and mother and an understanding of altered states of consciousness relevant to childbirth.

Whapio has written and shared ‘The Holistic Stages of Birth‘ with families and caregivers in order to reframe the process of labor in language that best describes the journey of birth. You can read it on her website:… and you are welcome to share it with others.

The Matrona is also a non-profit organization designed to bring authentic information about birth to marginally resourced women who can then return to their communities and care for mothers and families as Doulas. To that end, each year they offer numerous scholarships and free-of-charge Holistic Doula programs to the larger community.

Whapio also teaches homeopathy and conflict resolution as part of Matrona classes and is an Elder in her community.

Find out more at or follow the conversation on Facebook.




Like the music on the podcast?:

Title music:Vibe Aceby Kevin MacLeod, from the Free Music Archive / CC BY (edited for length).

Sponsorship music:Air Hockey Saloon” by Chris Zabriskie, from the Free Music Archive / CC BY (edited for length).

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Adriana Lozada